Abortion, Murder, And Religion
Scott Roeder – Murderer or Protector Of The Innocent?
As the trial of Scott Roeder continues this week in Wichita, Kansas, observers and protesters from both sides of the abortion issue are following every detail of the proceedings. Roeder is accused in the May 2009 slaying of Dr. George Tiller, a highly controversial physician known to perform late term abortions at his clinic.
After his murder, which occurred during a service at his church, pro-life proponent Randall Terry (Operation Rescue founder) said, “Dr. Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God.” Another pro-life proponent, Anthony Leake who visited Roeder in prison said, “I support the shooting of George Tiller as justifiable homicide. I only wish that it would have happened in 1973, before he was able to murder his first child.”
On the opposite side of the issue, pro-choice advocates are blaming pro-life organizations for the murder. “Some pro-life groups are issuing statements of condemnation and attempting to paint this murder as the work of an extremist. But this latest act of terrorism is, sadly, not an anomaly. It is part of a clearly-established pattern of harassment, intimidation and violence against abortion providers and pro-choice individuals. And mainstream pro-life groups shoulder much of the blame.” wrote Jill Filipovic on guardian.co.uk
A quick stop at Google reveals thousands of similar comments made from both the pro-life and pro-choice points of view.
If you follow this story for any length of time, it is easy to come away from it with a belief that all Americans are bitterly split over the issue of abortion. They aren’t. Let’s not allow the “vocal few” to tell us what we believe and how we think. Each of us has the right to our personal opinion(s) and also the right to join other like-minded individuals for the purpose of creating and/or changing the law(s) of the land.
As individuals, we should be able to openly express and follow our beliefs without fear. I believe that a majority of Americans do so, each and every day. We debate, we argue, we discuss. Sometimes we change our minds and sometimes we grasp firmly our convictions. We understand that being either pro-life or pro-choice does not a bad person make. We respect those on the other side of the issue.
As a group, we can work together for our common belief(s) and, while following the current laws of the land, we can work within their boundaries to change those laws that we feel are wrong.
This is a democratic and American process that our early leaders set in place. We should not allow one issue – such as abortion – to become bigger than the process. Americans coexist every day. Some are Republicans, some Democrats. Some are liberal, some are conservative. Some are religious, some not. Abortion is a complex social/religious/moral issue that will be debated far into the future. Our culture and legal structure allows for the debate.
So what is the voice of the common people regarding Scott Roeder and Dr. George Tiller? Dr.Tiller was an American who, depending on your personal perspective, was either:
- a great humanitarian who provided for the medical needs of many women during his lifetime, or
- a misguided physician responsible for the murder of numerous innocent unborn lives.
Whichever you choose to believe, Dr. Tiller was a law-abiding man who had the same right to his beliefs that you and I cherish so much ourselves. He did not deserve to be gunned down.
Scott Roeder; however; needs to be separated out from the anti-abortion/pro-life group and placed in a single category – that of murderer. He has confessed to committing the crime of murder and will be judged by his peers under the laws of the land. I believe that most Americans are able to detach Mr. Roeder, as an individual, from the pro-life, pro-choice debate. The abortion issue is complicated. Murder is not.
So, regardless of what the media and the ‘out-spoken’ on both sides are telling us, we commoners will continue to move forward – with more debate, more respect, more acceptance, and more freedom!
Tell me what you think. You’re opinion matters!
16 Responses to “Abortion, Murder, And Religion”
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I believe the doctor needed to be removed. I was impressed that Scott Roeder chose to permanently remove the murdering doctor. I am sure Scott was torn, knowing that his act would forever change his life and the life of his family as he knew it at the time. I pray that he prayed through on the matter and that he was compelled by God to perform the act and, if indeed this is the fact, God will reward Scott. . . no matter how many people choose to persecute him.
That being said, I, personally, do not believe in random acts of murder, but in this case I stand on the premise that the Bible states, an eye for an eye. Our society now allows murder as a legal remedy to situations (as long as it is babies and elderly), however that does not make it right. Our fore-fathers would roll over if they knew the USA allows doctors (who are suppose to save lives)to murder babies and elderly.
I believe my Jesus, who loves little children, was relieved the day this doctor was no longer able to kill his children.
Hi Ruth, Thanks for visiting and for your thoughts. I am glad that we have a place where we can discuss these issues – because they are so important! In the Old Testament, the ‘eye for an eye’ concept was practiced. I am so glad that Jesus establish a new covenant, based on God’s Grace. We never find Jesus acting out “an eye for an eye.” In fact, when the prostitute was lead before Jesus by the men who were demanding she be stoned to death for her sins, Jesus did the opposite – He said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Of course, the men, realizing that they had plenty of their own hidden problems, dropped their stones and walked away. Then Jesus asked the woman, “Where are those who condemned you?” and then, “Go, and sin no more.”
I don’t believe that God will reward any of us for violence. In fact, again in the old testament, God said, “Vengence is Mine.” I think that Jesus, is grieving for Dr. Tiller, too. I think he was included in the “who-so-ever.”
Thanks for sharing!
Blessings! Chuck
Based on your theory, we should have never sought out Hitler. . . Jesus loved him too. The bottom line: Millions of Babies vs. One doctor who is a murderer. . . who should have the opportunity to live? Apparently, the doctor was not living for Jesus or he would not have been murdering babies. I appreciate your stance that Jesus came to forgive, but I didn’t see the doctor asking for forgiveness. If he had asked for forgiveness and quit murdering babies, then I would have a different opinion. . . at that point. The people stoning the prostitute didn’t allow her to have forgiveness. . . she had turned from her ways. . .the doctor didn’t.
Hi Ruth, I guess its more of a theology rather than a theory. Regarding Hitler, yes I believe that Jesus loved him also. Scipturally, our actions do not determine God’s love for us – rather – being saved by grace, our actions determine whether we receive His grace and forgiveness or not.
The prostitute was “brought” to Jesus after being caught “in the act.” She was not repentant and in fact, expected to be stoned which was the ‘law of the land’ for her actions. Jesus ‘conditionally’ forgave her by saying that he did not condemn her – and then instructing her to not sin anymore.
I think the challenge for us is to not become the judge. In fact Jesus implored us to not judge others or we, ourselves, would be judged. This does not in any way keep us from knowing what is right and wrong, and we should certainly strive for justice and to change the things around us that we believe are wrong. But only God know the heart and the true intent of man.
The point of my post was that we have many valid ways to disagree agreeably with those who have different opinions. By doing so, we honor God and we will not be guilty of breaking His commands. “Thou shalt not kill” applied equally to Dr. Tiller and to Scott Roeder. My mother used to say that “two wrongs don’t make a right.”
God will be the judge for both men and they will receive either reward or punishment as He directs.
I have two questions – just as part of our discussion:
1) What should we do with a woman who has an abortion and does not feel it is wrong (does not ask forgiveness)? Is it okay to kill her? If not, how many abortions would she have to have before we could kill her?
2) As Christians, are we guilty because we don’t go out and kill doctors who perform abortions?
Abortion is a very sensitive issue and I appreciate your thoughts!
Blessings! Chuck
If Roeder felt called to act so violently on his extreme conviction, then he must know there is a heavy price to pay. He appointed himself judge and jury, and, as a people, that’s not how we operate. There are many child molesters who live among us, and I kind of relate this to that…if an evil being molested my child, I’d be compelled to act violently upon them; but if I chose to do so, I’d have to except the punishment for my criminal act.
Hi Kip, Thanks for your comments. I agree with your thoughts. As human beings, we have been given the intellect or rationale to think through our intended actions and then we are responsible for what we do – good or bad.
Blessings! Chuck
I appreciate your post about the Roeder/Tiller trial and the debate on abortion and murder. I agree with Ruth that it is our responsibility, as Christians, to make a difference when it comes to abortion. As Americans, we also have the freedom to speak out and be heard on these important issues.
But what does it say to the rest of the world (non-Christians, I mean) when someone like Roeder murders in the name of Christianity? Wouldn’t it serve a greater good (and certainly bring more glory to God) to dedicate oneself to ministering to those women who are contemplating abortion? Offering them another choice…life for their child? I think Jesus would have chosen life for both Tiller and unborn babies. And what about women after abortion…they need healing and forgiveness, too. I believe Christ would want us to spend our time building relationships with the mothers AND the abortion providers of the world so that we can win them to Jesus through our witness, not our violent acts against them.
Renee
Hi Renee, Thanks for your comments!
I agree with you. Our society today considers Christians to be “intolerant” and “unforgiving.” There have been many wrongs committed in the name of religion over the years.
We should be at the forefront of loving, forgiving and assisting those who are hurting and in need.
Blessings! Chuck
Wow! What strong feelings most of us have on the issue of abortion. I am so thankful we have, in this age of the Internet, a place to express each of our views, and that we live in a great country where we are not only allowed to have our own opinions, but have the inalienable RIGHT to do so without fear of condemnation.
My opinion, in short: Murder is wrong. The differences expressed here, I find, are more about WHAT is considered murder and how it should be dealt with. Although I am not proud to admit it, I personally rather ride the fencepost on the issue of early-term abortion; my feelings are torn. I do not see early-term abortion as murder, per se. I do NOT, however, support late-term abortion whatsoever.
As far as the murder of the physician, I feel, simply, that our laws concerning homicide shall apply here, and justly so. It is not up to us as individuals to judge and put others to death. Let’s leave that to our American judicial system! This system is definitely not a perfect one, none are, but serves us well the majority of the time.
We all know right from wrong…the problem, often, is that we do not agree on right and wrong! We must continue to make our convictions and beliefs known, whatever they may be, and work toward a better tomorrow…for the people, by the people and of the people.
Thank you for supplying this outlet. My best to you!
Jann
Hi Jann, Thanks for clicking by
Yes, emotions run high on the whole abortion issue. I want Tid-Bytes to be exactly the kind of place where everyone can express their feelings and viewpoint – in a safe and non-threatening environment. We Americans really do need this. The discussions need to take place, and we all need to both listen and share, while respecting the rights of others to disagree with us.
I agree with you on the subject of murder, and that is why I wrote this post – in order to clarify the issue, not abortion, but murder. This is a murder case and Scott Roeder will be tried and punished for that act.
I am pro-life on the abortion issue, and I agree with Renee who posted earlier. She said we should be involved in helping those who have unwanted pregnancies instead of judging them. I think that if our society would concentrate on forgiveness and getting along – instead of judging and finding fault, we would be happier and certainly closer to being what God intended.
As stated in the post, I truly believe that all Americans must follow the laws of the land and work towards changing those that we don’t agree with.
Blessings! Chuck
Hi Chuck and thanks for providing this outlet.
I have really struggled with this issue for a very long time and continue to. I’ve prayed that God will change my heart if it is not already in the right place. The bible seems to indicate to me that God doesn’t differentiate sin so, assuming he even views abortion as sin, he would not judge George Tiller any differently than Scott Roeder, or me for that matter. I’m so thankful for his grace.
With that said, it is my opinion that the lesser of the two evils here is Scott Roeder’s. If you truly believe that life begins at conception, then George Tiller was responsible for thousands of deaths and Scott Roeder one (which may have resulted in saving many more). George Tiller took whole lives including that precious youth.
I understand that Tiller didn’t break the ‘law of the land’ and Roeder did, but I don’t believe the law of the land is always right. The Holocaust and slavery are prime examples. At one time these were the ‘laws of the land’. Most people stood silently by.
Thanks again for this outlet. I’m for peaceful resolution. I would like to be a part of changing just one girl’s mind. Saving just one life without destroying another.
Greg
Hi Greg, Thanks for posting!
You said a mouthful in that first paragraph. I believe that you are correct in saying that God does not differentiate sin. If one believes, like I do, that abortion is the same as murdering a child, then yes – both men committed the same crime. And yes, sin is sin. There is not one that is more horrific than another in God’s sight. His great grace extends to all that turn from their sin.
In human terms, there are probably plenty of people who would say that Scott Roeder comitted the only bad act, while plenty of others would say his act was not near as bad as that of Dr. Tillers. In this life, I don’t believe we will ever get 100% agreement on issues like this, and that is one of the marvels that makes us so unique.
I certainly agree that we have had, and still do have, some bad laws on the books. This is where we should all work within the legal boundaries of the systems we have to change those that we believe are wrong. Scott Roeder chose to break a law in order to end what he believes to be the murder of innocent children. He will have to now pay the penalty for what he did, which I believe he should, based on the current laws we live under.
Blessings! Chuck
No matter what your stand on abortion, the MURDER of the doctor should outrage you as much as any other killing. When a crazed spouse kills their partner, if the defense lawyer at trial makes the murdered VICTIM the “bad guy” to justify the acts of his client, we all are offended. Murder is murder. Every killer has his or her own justification as to why the victim “deserved” to die.
It is NOT a God-given “right” for Man to decide that a person DESERVES or NEEDS to be killed! Yes, scripture can be quoted by any unstable person to explain why he or she committed murder. Look at the schizophrenic mothers who murdered their CHILDREN because of some “message from God” or because one believed she was saving them from Hell, or that they were “devils” who would only be saved by going to heaven before they got any older.
We all know, in our hearts, that there is NO justification for killing in the name of God.
Incidents like this are so extreme and frightening that I belive they send many Christians and average Americans toward THE MIDDLE! Abortion is such a personal issue, I believe we all struggle with our feelings. The murder of this doctor was such an extreme act of judgement and terror that all but the VERY entrenched will turn AWAY from it, and should.
I agree with Renee, if you want to save unborn babies, adopt some unwanted children. Volunteer at a center, sponser a mother, lawfully protest. Put that energy into POSITIVE steps. That is the Christian way! Read the words in RED…
Val
Hi Val, I appreciate your comments!
I agree with you that it should outrage us. You have summed up my feelings pretty well. I am just sorry that people lump these kind of acts as “Christian” which really gets me. Forgiveness, love, patience, kindness and MURDER? May it never be!
Blessings! Chuck
If I could ask just one question to those who support Mr. Roeder’s action, it would be this: Would you then also condemn to death each and every desperate or misguided young woman who has had an abortion? Think about it. Tough to answer? I’ll bet!
Jann
Hi Jann,
Great question. I haven’t heard an answer on this one. If we believe that abortion is murder, than aren’t both the mother and the doctor guilty?
Blessings! Chuck